Vanishing web articles

or While-u-wait Blog-cleaning
Wednesday 18 May 2011
by Irna

Translations of this article: [français]


Apparently, my article on stecci and "hijacking" by Mr. Osmanagic and his friends did not necessarily find favour in the eyes of quite everyone. At least, not in the eyes of one of the ‘researchers’ from the ‘SB Research Group’, Professor Paolo Debertolis, an odontologist by profession (and be careful not to refer to him as a "dentist", a description to which he takes great exception (it)). In my article, I singled out the many errors that he was making on the question of the stecci. Did he think that it might on the whole be preferable if these errors were airbrushed from the records? Whatever: between 12th May, the date when I first uploaded my own article onto Le Site d’Irna, and today, 17th May, Mr Debertolis seems to have taken the opportunity to indulge in a little judicious spring cleaning on his own site, Salviamoci nel 2012, for his six articles on the subject of stecci, the articles to which I posted links, have all disappeared! [1] Let us examine the question in more detail …

My article began by mentioning a series of three Notizie (news items) published on Salviamoci nel 2012 in the ‘Archaeology’ section. These three news items, dating from late August and September 2010, appeared under the general title of Le sfere, il Sole e le pietre taumaturgiche nella Civiltà di Visoko in Bosnia (“The spheres, the sun and the magic-working stones of the Visoko Civilization in Bosnia”), and included Mr. Debertolis’ analysis and interpretation of stecci and stone spheres, which he believes are linked to the mysterious "Visoko civilization"; one article in particular, dated 27th September 2010, discussed what Debertolis calls the "symbology" of this civilization. But all three Notizie, although still accessible on 12th May, have now vanished, and any reader clicking on one of these three links:
28th August: http://www.salviamoci2012.eu/forum/news.asp?id=64
4th September: http://www.salviamoci2012.eu/forum/news.asp?id=66
27th September http://www.salviamoci2012.eu/forum/news.asp?id=70
is met only with this kind of screen:

HTML - 29.5 kb
Forum Salviamoci nel 2012 - Notizia 70, 27 septembre 2010
JPEG - 154.2 kb
Capture d’écran du 17 mai 2011
Screenshot 17th May 2011

that is, the comments on the Notizie, but without the accompanying articles themselves. It goes without saying that it’s a bit of a disappointment that the original articles are no longer available, especially in view of the fanfares with which, on other forums, Mr. Debertolis had announced their publication:
28th August: http://www.nibiru2012.it/forum/misteri/piramidi-bosnia-datate-12000-a.c-57768.msg171603.html#msg171603
4th September: http://www.nibiru2012.it/forum/misteri/piramidi-bosnia-datate-12000-a.c-57768.msg174128.html#msg174128
27th September: http://www.nibiru2012.it/forum/misteri/piramidi-bosnia-datate-12000-a.c-57768.msg183963.html#msg183963

However, the pages are still available for a time in Google cache: Part OnePart TwoPart Three. But, as they will not be there indefinitely, below appear links to the cached versions as captured today (17th May 2011):

HTML - 43.8 kb
Les Sfere Parte Prima
Version enregistrée dans le cache de Google le 21 mars 2011 - As captured in Google cache dated 21st March 2011 - Source
HTML - 40.5 kb
Le Sfere Parte Seconda
Version enregistrée dans le cache de Google le 12 mars 2011 - As captured in Google cache dated 12th March 2011 - Source
HTML - 63.1 kb
Le Sfere Parte Terza
Version enregistrée dans le cache de Google le 7 avril 2011 - As captured in Google cache dated 7th April 2011 - Source

The other three items to which I linked in the stecci article have completely disappeared from Salviamoci nel 2012 [2]. These particular articles did not appear on the forum itself, but under the heading ‘Articles’, sub-heading ‘Archaeology’. Their collective title was Gli altri manufatti della Civiltà di Visoko in Bosnia ("Other artifacts from the civilization of Visoko in Bosnia"), and they were individually titled as follows:
the first one, Ossia oltre alle piramidi troviamo anche le sfere, gli stecak e gli obelischi (“Besides the pyramids there are also spheres, stecak and obelisks”);
the second, Parliamo ora degli stecak (“Now let’s discuss stecak”);
and the last, Cerchiamo di capire la simbologia della Civiltà di Visoko (“Let’s try to understand the symbology of the Visoko Civilization”).

It’s in these articles, especially in the second ("Now let’s discuss stecak" ), where professor Debertolis makes the greatest number of fundamental errors on the subject of the tombstones. With a view to these slip-ups not being lost to posterity, and so that readers following a link to one of these items don’t just land up on an ominous page 404 [3], I am pleased to make available the material that I captured yesterday (16th May 2011):

HTML - 31.1 kb
Gli altri manufatti della Civiltà di Visoko in Bosnia (Parte Prima)
Ossia oltre alle piramidi troviamo anche le sfere, gli stecak e gli obelischi ("En plus des pyramides on trouve aussi les sphères, les stecci et les obélisques" - "Besides the pyramids there are also spheres, stecci and obelisks") - Version enregistrée dans le cache de Google le 27 mars 2011 - As captured in Google cache dated 27th March 2011 - Source
HTML - 26.3 kb
Gli altri manufatti della Civiltà di Visoko in Bosnia (Parte Seconda)
Parliamo ora degli stecak ("Parlons maintenant des stecci" - "Now let’s discuss stecci") - Version enregistrée dans le cache de Google le 10 mai 2011 - As captured in Google cache dated 10th May 2011 - Source
HTML - 56 kb
Gli altri manufatti della Civiltà di Visoko in Bosnia (Parte Terza)
Cerchiamo di capire la simbologia della Civiltà di Visoko ("Cherchons à comprendre la symbologie de la Civilisation de Visoko" - "Let’s try to understand the symbology of the Visoko Civilization") - Version enregistrée dans le cache de Google le 30 avril 2011 - As captured in Google cache dated 30th April 2011 - Source
HTML - 28.5 kb
Sommaire des Notizie le 15 avril 2011
Version enregistrée par le cache de Google - Résumé of the Notizie of 15th April 2011 - As captured in Google cache - Source
HTML - 27.5 kb
Sommaire des Notizie le 17 mai 2011
Résumé of the Notizie of 17th May 2011 - Source
HTML - 40.5 kb
Sommaire des Articoli le 8 avril 2011
Version enregistrée par le cache de Google - Résumé of the Articoli of 8th April 2011 - As captured in Google cache - Source
HTML - 39.6 kb
Sommaire des Articoli le 17 mai 2011
Résumé of the Articoli 17th May 2011 - Source

Update, May 25th

Prof. Debertolis is presently moving his site to a new internet address, supposedly because of ’piracy’ (of which I’ll write in more details in a few days). Most of the articles from the old site have found their new place, but curiously not the six items mentioning stecci that I describe above ...



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Comments

logo de Abacus
Saturday 28 May 2011 at 22h10, by  Abacus

Dear Irna,

I read "Vanishing Web Articles" with much interest. I see that, in your update of 25th May, you mention that Professor Debertolis says that he has had to move his website because of what he calls "piracy." And, on this site, Archeologia di Confine, I see that you’ve sent a post discussing the same subject.

As you’ve probably also noticed, just before your post in that thread, one of the posters, Orso in Piedi (besides other remarks that I prefer not to reproduce, let alone translate) says that

"Questi debunkers,perche di debunkers si tratta,hanno sempre lo stesso "modus operandi". Presentano la loro"verita"con argomentazioni che ad un primo esame possono sembrare sensate,ma che ad una piu attenta verifica si svelano come assolutamente inconsistenti." ("These debunkers, because debunkers are what we’re dealing with here, always have the same "modus operandi". They present their "truth" with arguments that, at first sight, might appear sensible, but which, on closer examination, are revealed as absolutely lacking in consistency.")

In my next post, I asked him for an example of what he meant.

This was his reply. Briefly, he accuses me of "denigrating" the argument; and refuses to answer my question.

I don’t know how asking for an example of an argument that doesn’t hold water can be construed as "denigration" on my part. Surely, if he could produce such an example, it would only help his case?

Be that as it may, it seems that we shall never find the answer now, as Orso in Piedi states that, as far as he is concerned, the discussion is now closed. :(

Regards,

Abacus

logo de Irna
Sunday 29 May 2011 at 01h20, by  Irna

Hi Abacus,

"They present their "truth" with arguments that, at first sight, might appear sensible, but which, on closer examination, are revealed as absolutely lacking in consistency."

Funny, I would have said almost the same about these people, except that, even at first sight, they rarely appear ’sensible’ :-)

But what strikes me most is the close-mindedness of these people: from Orso in piedi, who claims that my arguments are ’inconsistent’, but refuses to provide a single example of this lack of consistency, to Pablito, who prefers destroying his own articles rather than acknowledging he may have missed some facts about the ‘stecci’, and to people on another forum who prefer to ignore the contradictors and refuse to listen to them...

What strikes me also is their frequent mention of politics and ethnicity: I can understand it when it comes from Bosnians, for whom the ’pyramids’ affair is heavily fraught with nationalism (see the documents I collected here on this particular subject). But when these Italians argue with mentions of ’political truth’, rants about the war and a supposed will to ’harm the Muslim Federation’ (sic!), or hide behing fantastic accusations of myself being a “famous former political personality of a certain ethnic community in Bosnia” hiding in France, I cannot help suspecting that they are at a loss for arguments and seek to deflect the discussion...

Irna