Carbon 14 dating - the next episode - [Le site d'Irna]

Carbon 14 dating - the next episode

Article published on 11 June 2011

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A triumphal announcement (bs), has recently appeared on the Osmanagic Foundation website, since repeated and copied multiple times on sites belonging to supporters, on alternative forums and in the local press (bs): the Pyramid of the Moon was supposedly constructed over 10,000 years ago.

Dnevni List, 31/05/2011
Source

The reason for this announcement: a carbon-14 dating carried out by Professor Anna Pazdur, University of Technology in Gliwice in Poland (the same scientist who earlier produced ​​a date for a piece of fossilized wood from the Ravne tunnel, and, in 2008, took part in the “International Conference” in Sarajevo). So is this latest dating any more convincing than the first one, which itself was most probably the result of a piece of fossilized wood from the Miocene era suffering contamination from groundwater seepage?

The sample submitted for the latest dating was taken by former archaeology student, Riccardo Brett, from test hole No. 20; this test hole was also the subject of a somewhat bizarre ‘report’ by the same Riccardo Brett (see here, note 2). According to Professor Paolo Debertolis (it), of the Italian ‘complementary’ team, this sample is a fragment of “what remained of the wooden planks put in place to stabilize the stones during installation” of the ‘paved terrace’ that can be seen in this test hole (“quel che restava delle assi in legno poste per stabilizzare le pietre in fase di posa in opera della foto che ho postato poco sopra”). On the Foundation website (bs), it is stated that the sample was found between two layers of sandstone, the upper layer of which is "glued to the base"; the fragment of wood was probably transported there by the wind during ‘construction’. However, if we look more closely at the photos on the Foundation website taken while the fragment was being removed:

Source
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it can be seen that the dark fragment of organic material seems to be, not so much between two layers of sandstone, as actually forming an integral part of the top layer of sandstone. Is it possible to find a piece of wood actually inside a layer of sandstone? Yes: the Pljesevica sandstones, alternating with layers of marl, mudstone and siltstone, were deposited in the middle Miocene (base of the Lasva series; see this more detailed article on the geology of the Visoko region) at the bottom of a lake basin. Along with mineral debris, organic debris was also being brought by rivers into this basin; some of that organic debris was then preserved through fossilization. During his stay in Visoko in 2006, the geologist Robert Schoch observed a large number of fossils and accumulations of leaf debris: “In some of the sandstone layers, and in many of the mudstone layers, I found large accumulations of fossil leaf debris and even some fairly complete Miocene fossil leaves”. Another geologist, Amer Smailbegovic, also noted the presence of organic material and the fossilized impressions of leaves amongst the mudstones and sandstones from which Pljesevica is formed (see his report, pages 6 and 7). While these organic deposits are certainly less significant than those of the previous period (lower and middle Miocene), which provided the lake basin of Zenica-Sarajevo with deposits that formed major coal seams that are still being worked at Zenica, they are nonetheless attested in the Lasva series, either in the form of thin gray or blackish layers, or as lenses of organic debris:

Source

So hardly surprising, therefore, to find a small piece of fossilized wood or lignite amongst these sandstones.

There remains the question of age: organic material from the Miocene should not contain any radio-carbon 14, and would therefore be incapable of providing a proper date - unless the sample has been contaminated by recent deposits of organic carbon, for example via water percolating into the ground. I have already discussed this possibility in the case of the piece of "wood" from the Ravne tunnel. The same possibility also applies to the latest dating sample from test hole No. 20, especially since: 1) this test hole has been open since at least the autumn of 2006 (see e.g., here, or these photos from the Foundation website gallery, the earliest of which date back to 2007), and 2) as shown in the photos above, the sample was extracted from the surface, in the immediate proximity of vegetation. Contamination resulting in distorted dating can very frequently be caused by factors such as the action of roots and the circulation in the soil of humic acid, the result of plant decomposition. Late contamination of this sort may be more or less offset by appropriate pre-treatment, but there are no guarantees. For this reason, archaeologists seeking to establish dates will, as far as possible, first try to avoid areas of bio-turbation, and, second, will take multiple samples from a site, so that they do not have to depend on one result only.

What can be stated in conclusion is that a single date obtained from one solitary sample cannot be relied on as validation of anything very much at all. And it does not end there. It appears that the Foundation organized the analysis of two samples taken at the same location, although only one was dated: apparently, the other one did not have (bs) any organic content. This could possibly be an indication of the presence of extremely ancient organic material (totally devoid, therefore, of carbon-14), one part of which has thrown up a more recent date by virtue of contamination by later material. However, in the absence of the Polish laboratory’s full report (doc file on the site of the Foundation is signed by Anna Pazdur, and dated March 31, 2011, but the file properties show that the last modification was effected by one "Semir" on April 9th [1]) it is impossible to make any further progress on this question.

Of course, none of the Osmanagic supporters, starting with Professor Debertolis, has raised the least question about the validity of this dating result. And, even if it were valid, probably none of them would be prepared to consider the possibility of an explanation independent of the ‘pyramids’; the presence of a piece of organic matter 10,000 years old is automatically taken to be proof of a ‘construction’. Mr. Osmanagic and his friends seem indifferent to normal scientific safeguards: what matters is to give the appearance of science, to use the support afforded by carbon-14 dating without fussing over ‘details’ of interest only to ‘armchair scientists’ ...

Notes :

[1One might also wonder why the report took so long to appear on the Foundation website. If the Foundation had access to it on 9th April, why wait until 6th June to publish it?


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Carbon 14 dating - the next episode
canada71 - on 2 July 2011

If people only took half a day to go through his books, or at least the two of them, Cosmic mission of Maya and Mystery of Anasazi, they would quickly realize that he is a cult member. Maybe you should make people aware through your blog to read these two books found on his site, www.alternativnahistorija.com. He is waco, nothing more. Maya came from stars? And went back there? Going to "other dimensions" by smoking marihuana? Yeah, that’s what he says in his books! Federal tv wasted lots of money so this waco can travel around the world and film that stupid documentary. Why this tv did not have show to analyze his books? Waco is searching pyramids so he can escape to other dimension, that’s what his goal is according to his books. Guy is crazy!

Carbon 14 dating - the next episode
Abacus - on 3 July 2011

Hi canada71,

You make some fairly direct points! In fact, there are already some articles on this site that mention Mr. Osmanagic’s studies of the Maya:

- Irna’s article: The book "The Bosnian pyramid of the Sun"

- Irna’s article: Osmanagic slammed by Johan Normark, which has two links to Normark’s blog articles -

- Normark: "Osmanagic slams Hawass"

- Normark: "2012: Prophet of nonsense # 4: Semir Osmanagić and the pyramid builders from the Pleiades"

- Irna’s article: A discussion about Mr. Osmanagic’s thesis, which contains a link to a forum where the thesis is examined in detail.

Hope you find some interesting reading here! :)

Regards,

Abacus

Carbon 14 dating - the next episode
Abacus - on 3 July 2011

I forgot to say that, of all the discussions of Mr. Osmanagic’s thesis on the Maya, probably this one is the most important.

Abacus

Carbon 14 dating - the next episode
Abacus - on 19 November 2013

Hi Irna,

Apparently, Mr. Osmanagic is still making great play of Carbon 14 dating results, as can be seen from this link (It. - some Engl.) on Eclisse Forum; the link to the original article (It.) that generated the discussion is here.

(Tera Pruitt’s 2011 thesis is mentioned in that post on Eclisse, but there is of course also a link to it on this page of your site.)

Regards,

Abacus

Carbon 14 dating - the next episode
Irna - on 19 November 2013

Hi Abacus,

I think that the original article in English is this one: http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/11/12/houston-anthropologist-reveals-irrefutable-proof-recorded-history-wrong/

The author is one Deborah West; according to this biography,

She is currently doing investigative journalism reporting on a wide variety of topics including our cosmic culture, the multi dimensional universe, lost knowledge within our ancient civilizations and disclosure.

and

She is working on her first book with co-author Michael Hathaway entitled Idiots Guide to Disclosure, focused on the real origin of mankind, the reality of the existence of alien life and the shift in humanity’s consciousness.

That says a lot :)



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